Thread: Twilight/ Bis(s) langweilig?!

Amazon schrieb:
I don't care how much you loved Twilight, how loyal you are to Meyer, or how you want to delude yourself into thinking this is a good book out of devotion--don't. It's horrible, like published fan-fiction, only worse. Oh, and let me explain near the end of this why you shouldn't listen to the 5 star reviews.

First, the writing is just terrible. So much of it is generically vague and non-descript, and we're constantly told what happens instead of shown. The characters act like dolls, and much of it seems to be trite dialogue. There is a lot of back and forth where it seems like they're only going through the motions. Beyond this though, the first person narration is truly horrible. At times, it feels as if Bella isn't narrating at all, or she's not even there. Some cutoffs from her dialogue to her straight thoughts don't read well, and sound as if she's still speaking out loud when she isn't. There's no reflectiveness in her character, or really much at all. There's also a terrible abuse of unnecessary adverbs and bad dialogue tagging.

"He shuddered convulsingly" (pg 67) will never be a good sentence, and it's not the only one like it. It's redundant in and of itself, and indicative of lazy writing description. This is not to say that adverbs can't exist--they're essential, sometimes. But Meyer's complete abuse of them to convey all her points cheapens the writing. Further, she far abuses such tags as "I lied" and "he questioned" to get her point across about the speech. This is bad, because it's overdone, and if "I lied" is all we get from Bella in particular points to convey the scene (and it is, for there is too much dialogue without much actually happening) then it's not conveying what's going on well. If you were reading quickly, you could have missed it.

The plot, itself, reads like it was stolen from a fangirls wet dream. Meyer is even inconsistent with her own world, essentially breaking her own rules to make the plot work. Good authors don't do that. Sorry Meyer. Maybe you should consider taking actual creative writing workshops instead of bragging that you haven't. It's nothing personal, but you can do better than this crap.

Spoilers below this point. I say you really have to read some to understand just how -bad- this book is. Bella is a horrible role module character, and the messages in this book are not things that should be promoted.

To start with, Bella begins the book by complaining about being rich and getting what she wants. Considering it's in her personality to complain about everything, as it seems, this is somewhat problematic, as it shows a pretty selfish character. She gets a Mercedes Guardian, not even released in America yet, and bitches about it. Not a great way to begin to connect to the audience for one. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her that she has this awesome car? Because that's a big NO. Do I see her as humble for not wanting to be seen with it? No, not particularly. Because she just "doesn't want to draw attention to herself." Because she's getting married at 18, and she's just embarrassed, I guess. But really, not a good way to begin. The narrator doesn't get better.

The wedding was shallow. It's amazing how little of it is actually described, other than being "amazing," which honestly doesn't explain much. Bella essentially loses all doubts she may have had as soon as she gets up there on the alter and kisses Edward, effectively cheapening any depth there could have been to any underlying issues. Bella doesn't come to terms with anything--she just suddenly knows that this is all well and good. At this point it might be worth it to note that there's not even a description of what Bella looks like in her wedding dress, other than "stunning." Come on, Meyer. You even said you were exited to write the wedding. Where's the wedding? Oh, and Bella also hardly seems to worry at all about leaving her friends and family behind forever. Nope, just a little tinge, but really, she can sex Edward, so it's okay.

About the sex. They have conversations about it without outright saying so, and even do the deed once before saying the word outright. This can be fine, but the way it was done was such a mess, it seemed more like Meyer was afraid of sex or the mention of the word. It's somewhat obvious that sex is what they're talking about, but even so, it's still annoying. Also, The sex scene itself was ridiculous and boring. Never mind my personal belief that by Meyer's rules, it shouldn't even be possible (vampires have no blood or any real liquid, except for venom. I wonder how exactly Edward would "get it up" without blood and with a lack of hormones, unless he just has that kind of control over his penis. Although, since Edward is described as basically being as hard as a statue all the time, even if he's flaccid you might get something to work there [though it shouldn't]. And I still have my doubts about how truly amazing their sex should be, as I really wouldn't want cold hard marble in my vagina, no matter what guy I was with. But I digress. Of course, their sex is wonderful, because everything has to be perfect, and Bella is completely a cannon Mary-Sue).

Further about the sex. Edward apparently just can't control himself after the sex, and eats the pillows, tearing them to shreds. The second time he attacks the headboard. Judge that one for yourself. I find it ridiculous.
Even -further- about the sex. Bella and Edward are, first of all, both virgins until this point. Bella, after realizing just how absolutely amazing it is, decides that she wants it all the time, seriously begging for it like a sick sex-obsessed puppy. Nice going Meyer. That's totally what every 18 year old should act like. Even worse though, is that after her first orgasm, Bella decides that being human really isn't so bad. Because the sex is awesome, and she enjoys being hormonal. Also, great message. The only reason to stay human is to have absolutely amazing sex (that seriously shouldn't be. You know, cold things numb you). She only wants to continue living as human and got to college because of Sex. Sex is apparently everything. Really, you know how to drive home your point Meyer. Never mind the bad representations of females you had in your other books, this takes the cake. The only reason to live is SEX. Without sex with a hot boyfriend/husband you are DOOMED. If you do not have sex, you should beg for it (Bella does) and when you have a sex dream, you should wake up crying about it because it's not real, which will make your boyfriend/husband sex you. Because sex is all you need to make you happy. And this book is for teens? I'm not saying teens couldn't handle the themes--considering the amount of slash fanfiction, most of which written by teens, I really think this is tame and altogether something not hard to deal with. The themes are nothing a 10 year old couldn't take, in all honesty, provided they were mature. But the way it's written is just bad. Meyer, once again, proves that Bella is not at all as mature as she pretends she is.

But of course, she might explain away the sexual obsession with the fact that Bella is pregnant with a mutant half-vampire baby that's, by the way, killing her. "What?" you might think. "But Vampires are STERILE!" Well, by Meyer's laws, they should be. Consult the Twilight Lexicon, and you will find a personal correspondence with Meyer that says pretty explicitly that vampires can't get pregnant. Their bodies freeze exactly as they are and basically die. You know what that means? No sperm. Or, dead sperm, if any. Oh, and since their bodies -can't- change--you get it. So, not only is this impossible, which means Meyer is breaking her own rules (needless to say, bad form), but the baby as a plot device is rather lame. Not only is it a slap in the face, since the idea behind picking Edward was that she'd give that all up, but it's also a bitch-slap to Rosalie and completely points to Meyer making Bella incredibly perfect. This whole thing cheapens the romance, cuts out the struggle, and makes any drama worthless. She's undercutting her own plot. BAD form. Also, Meyer's basically doing her best to give Bella everything when she doesn't deserve it, which again, points to Bella being a cannon Mary-Sue.
Oh, but possibly worse is the fact that Bella comes to the sudden revelation that babies are good, despite never having wanted one before and there being no actual reason for this. She "suddenly realized" that she really wanted this baby. So, message? Teens should marry early and reproduce as fast as possible--it's always a good thing. Don't wait to pop out those babies. Oh, and you'll love it, no matter what (completely screwing with character and actual reasoning there, it's not developed at all).
Oh, and by the way. Vampire baby? Grows three times as fast. So despite it only having been a little more than two weeks, there's a baby bump. No, I'm not kidding. It's straight from fanfiction, and there's no reasoning for it. How does Bella realize she's pregnant? Well, at first it might be hard to tell, because Meyer's lack of actual useful description of anything has Bella looking at a generic blue box when half-thought things flash through her brain, meanwhile the readers not getting much of anything. So Bella picks up the blue box, announces that her period is 5 days late, and -then- she tells you it's a box of tampons. And she really couldn't have said "the tampon box?" It's like a lame attempt to try to be dramatic. The entire book is like that. I told you, it's a fangirls wet dream. Edward and Bella sex it up a few times, mutant baby that grows so fast that it'll be full grown (18, physically) in 6 and a half years before turning into a vampire to stay 18 forever, and Jacob imprints on the baby.

Oh, wait, I'm getting ahead of myself.

We also get a few chapters from Jacob's point of view. No, the writing itself isn't much better, although it's nice to get away from our lame heroine. it is through here that we Jacob learns of Bella being "sick" and he decides that must mean they're turning her into a vampire. So, he basically shoves himself into the Cullen's family while alienating himself from his own pack to deal with it. Upon realizing Bella is pregnant, neither he, nor Edward really approve of the kids existence and want to abort it to save Bella's life. What does Edward do though? He tells Jacob that Bella will have his kids with him. Okay, wait, what? They're married, and Edward's making a deal like that? Without even consulting his wife? And Jacob agrees? What? Do I even have to point out how wrong that is?

Oh, and in case you didn't believe me when I told you there's way too much dialogue. Flip through Jacob's chapters. You see all the italics? How it takes up more than half the page? Those are thoughts between the pack members talking to each other. Yes, it really is all like that. All the conversations run too long too, practically hitting you over the head with the point.
Oh, and Jacob spends a lot of time wanting to kill Edward. Maybe that's one reason people don't like the themes in this book for children. Honestly, it's written in such a way it doesn't matter. He might as well be contemplating squishing a tic.

Oh, and here's a little side-rant. Bella's supposed to have "a private mind" right? But then Meyer also says how easy she is to read. In Jacob's chapter, he says so too. Being easy to read is not compatible with having a private mind. But Logic has long run away.

Oh, and Jacob's descriptions aren't better either. Emmet is "the big one," and Rosalie is "the showy one." Yup. That says a lot.
And apparently, Jacob can't kill vampire girls, because they're girls (175). That's not Sexist in any way. (These books are all extremely sexist. Not a single strong female character exists. Remember Bella? Not strong).

I'm going to skip over a lot, because one review can't possibly do justice to all the problems this book has.

Skipping over how Bella's basically dying until she drinks some blood and all that such crap, Bella gives birth and is basically dying. That's right, she's dying in childbirth when she gets turned. Raped fanfiction, and generally done before. Bella gets not one vampire superpower, but 2. She gets a LOVE SHIELD that she can use to protect people she loves (which should essentially just be her and Edward and Jacob, because she shows no real love to anyone. No, actually, not even Edward, because it seems more like lust there than love). A Love Shield? Really? Wow, that's not pathetic either. Breaking out the "protected by love" thing is pretty sad, and it's another way to drain the drama. Not that we'd be allowed to believe that anything bad could ever actually happen anyway, because Meyer needed to go for the overkill happy ending that never makes sense if you want to go for even the most minor shot of realism. She also gets the ability to read memories. I don't know how Meyer can justify either of those, since from what we can see of Bella's personality and gifts, neither of these makes sense. And of course, never mind that most vamps would only get one power. Bella is so UBER special, she gets two.
She's also so uber special, that she turns complete vamp faster than anyone, because her heart was stronger than even Emmett's. That makes no sense, except that Meyer fails at symbolism. It also functions as yet another way to make Bella so extra special that no one can deny it and she lives a perfect life, despite the fact that it makes no sense. Oh, and all that talk about being a crazed newborn vamp? Might as well not be there. Bella is sooooo cool, she adapts without really having to think about it. Because she's soooooooooooooooo special, she defies the reality Meyer had set in place, for no reason. Just like fanfiction. This is lame, and it undercuts the drama. It makes everything that came before it mean nothing. There's no overcoming obstacles. All the obstacles that were there for drama are conveniently taken down, or not true obstacles at all. It's cheap, and bad form.

Do I have to continue to prove this book is terrible?

Well, yes. I'm cutting out again though, because there's no way to fit all the issues with this book in here. (BTW, Bella protects people in the battle with the Voultri with her love shield. Hello, Sailor Moon).

This one's somewhat a personal issue, but the name Renesmee (Renee and Esme) is ridiculous, and WAY too cutesy and overdone, especially considering the rest of the book. And the middle name is Carlie (Charlie and Carlisle). That's just weird. But don't worry. Jacob nicknames the baby Nessie, which is sooo much better (Lockness Monster). That one's just weird.

But to ensure a happy ending for all, Jacob, failing to get Bella, imprints on little Nessie. Which is not creepy, or like a pedophile at all. But don't worry, because it's alright. She's his soulmate now, she'll grow up in 6 1/2 years, and be a complete adult that he can sex (with "chocolate brown eyes" like her mother, because that description is not overused at all. Brown is never brown, it's chocolate). So yeah, he's basically raising the kid he's going to sex up while still technically too young for him and protect the kid from it's own parents, Jacob can insert himself in the Cullen family of love, and everyone's happy. But Meyer has never had issues with older men dating little girls. Edward is, like, 100, remember? I'll leave the ranting on the overtly sexist themes to someone else--there's always someone else ready to point it out. In short, Edward is abusive (overtly controlling) and Jacob, though still my favorite since he was the only character that didn't make me want to murder someone in New Moon, is somewhat like a rapist (forcing himself on Bella).

So Meyer, what was it you said about giving everyone a happy ending? Yeah, you kinda screwed that up when you got your fans both saying the whole Nessie situation was sick. People already have their twilight icon's switched to "July 28 08, the day the fandom died" (the day it was released early in Texas).

Oh, and Meyer's also screwing with the idea of the Incubus to explain away Bella's pregnancy. Edward is now an incubus. Never mind that the incubus and vampire were two distinct creatures, but the incubus generally needs to have had sex at least once before so it can get the sperm to impregnate the women (either it was also a succubus, and it sexed men to get their sperm and then turned into an incubus and had sex with women, or it sexed a succubus to get the sperm the succubus had gotten). If Edward doesn't get sperm, this is a problem. She screwed with the rules, and she's completely butchering another creature that doesn't deserve it. The explanation still doesn't make sense, and it's too much explaining without enough plot.

As for any positive reviews here, let me counter a few of them, and explain why they don't matter.

first of all, to the people saying Meyer left loopholes to get herself out of the Nessie thing. Good authors don't need loopholes. When you reach a point, even a surprising one, there should be some reason that it clicks, and it shouldn't need to be completely re-explained. The explanations are not particularly good either. If she had established a world in which this made sense from the beginning, but simply misled everyone to believe it was impossible, it's different from completely blindsiding people. "She left loopholes" is not an excuse. It's BAD WRITING. DON'T excuse Meyer for it, just because you're devoted and want so desperately to believe it's good and okay. DON'T ignore things that she herself told you. DO think about it logically, even with the story's own internal logic. It fails itself repetitively, and everyone is out of character.

I'll point out that people left 5 star reviews before they read the book. I'll also point out that most of those reviews are exceedingly short. They don't say much of anything. Think about what they actually say. I'm betting some were written out of loyalty to Meyer and Twilight, and this book doesn't deserve it. The book is shallow. Other five star reviews blatantly state they just really want the book, and you can't let that decide for you.
"This is fiction," doesn't cut it as a reason that Meyer isn't consistent within her own universe. Even if you ignore that the writing has progressively gotten worse after each book she wrote, fiction still has to make sense within itself, or it's not worth anything. Fiction should still say something. Meyer's not saying anything except that Bella can get whatever she wants with no real sacrifice, and all girls should be shallow, have sex, and a great many of other truly appalling things. And she broke suspension of disbelief to do it, which is something you never want to do.
"Think about Meyer's religion," doesn't cut it either. Why? Because she shouldn't be forcing her Mormon beliefs on us, and even so, she's creating a horrible role model that begs for sex. Begging for sex is stupid. The problem isn't necessarily that Bella's married at 18 so much as this entire thing is idealized. At the point at which this is passed off as the purest form of pure love and something all people should aspire to, it's bad. I don't believe it is true love, but Meyer says it is, and is saying that this is what all true love is like. And forcing your religious beliefs on the masses is wrong. At least, in the US it is.

And seriously -HALF THE 5 STAR REVIEWS ARE WRITTEN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK-.

"Bella is IN LOVE with Edward it is completely different and she has had to SACRIFICE alot for this." No. Fail. She didn't sacrifice, because she got most of it back anyway.

"I think the book is good, and maybe she wont publish midnight sun because of how bad people are saying Breaking Dawn is." Speaks for itself. Don't rate it good just because you think you won't get Midnight Sun. Trust me, Meyer will get it published. She has too many fangirls who'd buy anything she wrote.

"Isn't every book a glorified fanfic." No, actually. Meyer is fangirling all over herself on this one. Fanfiction is fiction written by fans, often used to create fantasies that the writer wished would happen themselves or making characters do things they wouldn't normally do, or are out of character. Not all fanfiction is like that, but a mass of it is. Meyer is writing her own characters out of character. That's bad. There's a confused definition between an author who likes their own writing and someone who squees over every line they write.

Let me also point out that as of the time I checked, the most helpful favorable review had 1 out of 8 people say it was actually helpful. Negative? 66 out of 79.

So before you buy all those happy reviews, think a little longer.

If this review is making you mad, why? Because the Twilight Saga is your love? Because it has to be amazing? Well, it isn't. This is the only book I've ever found that I'd pronounce complete dreck. Ever.

I don't mind the change in tone of the book. I love darker things. I love gore. That's not a problem.

To the people who say that "you have to read with an open mind," fine. You can do that. But if thinking critically leads to the reasoning that it's not a good book, than it's not a good book. You shouldn't have to tell yourself not to think to be able to enjoy a book. There's a difference between keeping an open mind and accepting that pigs do in fact fly.

Let me explain why I am not surprised.

Twilight was a good book, for what it was. It's not deep literature, but it's an easy read, and it's cute--provided you don't try to look too deep for meaning. The writing itself wasn't amazing. Well, Meyer hadn't written anything before that, so it's not surprising. I finished reading the book, somewhat satisfied. I read it prepared to hate it, and I was pleasantly surprised I didn't have to, even if it'd never be my favorite and it was easy to poke holes in. Problems in that book include Bella being annoying as all hell as a first person perspective. You don't get a real sense for most of the other characters at all, and there're really flat. Jessica is written off as shallow while Bella is being shallow herself (Eric and Mike were only ever nice to her and without even knowing them Bella writes off Eric as a total overambitious geek and Mike as a puppy). He love of Edward focuses far too much on Edward's beauty, and not much on what actually makes them click together. For the sake of space, I direct you here http://otahyoni.livejournal.com/130432.html to see an actual count, and if you really want to know, the fact that Edward stalked Bella while she was sleeping before she even know him is creepy, not true love. There were flaws in the books.

And then they got worse. New Moon was a train wreck. The pacing was horrible. Bella spends over half the book angsting without much actually happening, and to get over it she hooks up. Because You Are Never Complete Without Your Man. She takes months to get over it, which is unrealistic no matter how many times you claim their soulmates. There was no falling in love anywhere. Edward's and Bella's getting to know each other was a game of questionare, and knowing each other's favorite colors does not equal love. Edward wouldn't even let Bella ask him questions, instead insisting that she wasn't allowed. Jacob is better, and actually does something other than stare at Bella. Then he clings to her and angsts about being a werewolf in Now Moon, because somehow despite the fact that every single page in that book is dripping with angst and Bella being semi-suicidal, there's not enough of it yet. There's not subtlety to anything. And the whole plot is a mess and doesn't make sense.

Other problems with the books as a whole are the vampire's vitual perfection, to the point that they're so overpowered there can hardly be much drama without Bella acting like an idiot (when we're told that she's super smart). The books are exceedingly repetitious, mostly on the points of angst and Edwards beauty. I find it irritating. "He's hot" shouldn't make up for a lack in personality. Bella's not allowed to actually be flawed, so everyone loves her for no reason. Having 5 guys after you is not realistic to the extent that it's played in the book. Being clumsy is not a fault when it disappears when convenient and is only used to make her look cute or relatable. I don't relate to Bella at all, and I'm almost 17. I get that Edward's a vampire, but there's not much actually shown that allows there to be any real feeling of danger. He says over and over that he's a danger, but he never backs it up. At that point, it doesn't matter, and when you can't see the fact that it's a problem beyond being told that it is, then it doesn't really exist the way it should. New Moon had literally 20 pages of Bella and Edward going back and forth telling each other they loved each other at the end, all very mushy and overdone, and I might have gotten a concussion with how hard Meyer hit me over the head with the Romeo and Juliet comparison. But she can't really pull subtle. Considering Juliet was naïve and an idiot, and Romeo was lusty and a pimp, the comparison is just a little too perfect in all the wrong ways (seriously, read it. Romeo was after another girl when he saw Juliet and decided she was prettier). And I'm telling you I actually enjoyed reading Twilight. But it was flawed. And New Moon was worse. And Eclipse wasn't better.

So why is it not surprising that Breaking Dawn is seriously this bad? Because while Twilight was good, for the easy read that it is, it wasn't a deep read, and you didn't have to think hard at all. New Moon and Eclipse honestly should have just been one book, because New Moon had about 500 unnecessary pages of angsting. Meyer has been getting worse and worse with each book she pumps out in the series, not better. And for the people who want to blame the pressure Meyer was under for the dreck in this book, don't. She said herself, many events in Breaking Dawn were originally in the direct sequel to Twilight, Forever Dawn, that got pegged. She'd had it written though, so Breaking Dawn wasn't under quite the same pressure as you'd think. Meyer was the one pressuring her publisher to let her go ahead with it. So don't blame pressure on this one.

I could explain even more reasons why I'm not surprised this book is just not good, but it comes down to the fact that I think Meyer needs to actually consider working on her writing, as opposed to living off fans that will eat anything she gave them. Honestly, it's not fair to anyone who was enjoying her work to publish something this bad. Writing for yourself is fine. If you keep it to yourself. But I guess Meyer doesn't care about the fans.

Listen, I'm not saying hate Twilight either. But if you take a look closer, you might see what I mean that it's not perfect, even if you don't agree. I was okay with Twilight by itself.

The series should have ended there, like it was originally intended to. Because there's only so far that a bored housewife can push a book written about a dream she had of a sparkling vampire.


As a complete sidenote, it might be interesting to note that the way Meyer describes Bella is very much like the way she herself looks. It's not directly in the books, but it's very exact. Considering I'm sure Meyer was in her own dream somewhere, the idea of it being a self-insert is entertaining, if not provable. But that's a complete other debate.

Ich meine einfache Theoriefehler wie z.B. das die Vampire glitzern um atraktiv und anziehend zu wirken, so nach dem vorbild der Fleischfressende Pflanze, aber ich bezweifle das dies in der Realität funktionieren würde, weil doch zu wenig menschen -glitzer-haut- atraktiv finden würden.

This is the only book I've ever found that I'd pronounce complete dreck. Ever.

Hah ich finde diesen neuen Trend-Frisuren-Look der derzeit bei jungen Männer so IN ist allgemein grauenhaft.

Ich bin überzeugt das ist wie in den 80ger mit dem Schulterpolster:

Irgendwann mal werden sie sich dafür schämen sowas getragen zu haben.

Ich meine diese Lange-ungepflege Mähne die meistens eh zu lang und ungekämmt runterhängt oder wie bei Edwards -Einmal durch den Monsun und die Frisur hällt- Art.